Marvel Universe

[RoIIo Tomassi]

Here's something about the Hulk I just found out. Did you know Betty is "deceased" and in some kind of preservation tank? O was talking with a friend about it because Thunderbolt Ross is back and he was talking about Betty being dead, and I was like, wait what? Wasn't she Mr. Blue? So he wiki'd her and MR. BLUE/BETTY WAS FUCKING FIGMENTATION OF HULK'S MIND. Like they retconned the whole fucking Bruce Jones run out of existence. WHAT THE FUCK?

[jjreason]

I wouldn't have gotten that, and I've read every issue since as well as WWHulk. This shit leaves me as soon as I read it - I still get enjoyment, but it does NOT hang around long in my consciousness, that's for sure.

[anarky]

Don't feel bad. Aside from the death of Jean and Beast being a lion, they retconned the entire Grant Morrison run on New X-Men the week after his final issue.

This causes me some concern about Marvel.

They bring in reknowned comic writers like Jones and Morrison, then essentially say "this didn't happen." Meanwhile, they seem to prefer "celebrity" writers who are good at television and/or novels, but may or may not understand what makes a good comic. (I'm not saying they don't, but there doesn't seem to be much in the way of "trial periods" to ensure they do know what they're doing. Just "The creator of Seinfeld is writing a new Slapstick series!!!!") These guys, understandably, see comics as a side project that doesn't make much money and, therefore, when it comes down to finishing a movie script or writing the next issue of a comic, they do the movie. And so a lot of books wind up being late.

Still not too bad, but they no longer seem capable of saying, "You can't finish one issue in four months? You're fired!" Fuck, even the editor-in-chief hands in what little work he still does months late.

Back to guys like Morrison and Jones, they're not going to be able to get guys like this much more, if any more at all. If you're at the level where you can do any comic you want, and you're widely respected, would you take the opportunity to play in such a prestigious sandbox knowing it would likely all be thrown out the minute your run ends?

As far as longstanding "great" comic writers, who's left who'll work at Marvel? Peter David and Chris Claremont, both of whom are so far past their prime that it ain't funny. I wouldn't pay Claremont to write his name at this point.

[jjreason]

It's all Brubaker and Bendis at this point, with a little Matt Fucktion thrown into the mix (who'll do whatever Bendis' says, and be more than happy to ride the false-wave of hype & awesomeness that JoeQ keeps trying to whip up for him).

To use your analogy, Chux, it's Bendis' sandbox now - the rest are lucky to be allowed to borrow a shovel or bucket.

[anarky]

Such a large universe, so many books, so few voices. Sigh.

[jjreason]

It's like the early 60's all over again, where Stan (and Jack, if you're of the same mind I am) controlled just about everything in all of the key books. A few other players took part, but the total number of creators involved in making every one of those 700 or so comics that defined the Marvel Universe as we know it is really, really small when you think about it.

Stan Lee and Roy Thomas wrote just about everything - and Roy wrote what Stan gave him. Jack drew just about everything, and Ditko was there to fill in the books he couldn't keep up with (or didn't get in on in the beginning - Spidey & Dr. Strange if I'm not mistaken).

It wasn't until at least a couple of years later that the Buscemas, Gene Colan and Werner Roth showed up... and they were only really truly busy once Marvel majorly expanded their line in 1968 with the re-titlings and new series (Iron Man, Captain Marvel, Thor, Hulk, etc).

EDITED: Hoo boy, I forgot John Romita Sr. in that post initially - I should be shot & shit on. Seriously though - it's almost like one of those old business adages - Human Resources are your greatest expense. If you can successfully run a skeleton crew, you'll make more dough. I wonder if that's what was going on then - and what's going on now.

[anarky]

And, in the 90s, it was all Fabien Nicieza. In the 80s, the Simonsons played a pretty serious role, too, IIRC.

When you think about it, guys like Byrne, Claremont, Starlin, Michelinie, Hama, David, DeMatteis, etc, really didn't do an awful lot. They just did one or two titles spectacularly.

[jjreason]

Like Joss Whedon or Garth Ennis.... makes you wonder what would happen if Marvel had a "one writer = one book" policy. There'd potentially be a lot less cohesion between the titles... but I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing.

[RoIIo Tomassi]

That's what strong editorial teams are for. Let the writers come up with the ideas. And the editor channels, streamlines, quality checks and basically is a voice of reason for the really shitty ideas. Editors and Publishers should NOT be making story policy. I never understood how DeFalco got away with writing Thor for so long. I mean, who's gonna naysay his shit when he signs the paychecks? Oh thats right, nobody and Thor sucked for a decade.

[anarky]

I still maintain that the idea of Thunderstrike was a great one, even if the execution sucked balls. Same with the Thor Corps. DeFalco did do some awesome work back in the day on Marvel Two-In-One.

One writer = one book would be an awesome idea, especially if the editors did their job. Everyone doesn't live in New York anymore, but the internet could provide amazing ground for exchange of ideas and discussion. The physical bullpen may be a thing of the past, but a virtual one could be a beautiful thing.

And something has to be done about the fucking crossovers. I think if both Didio and Quesada just stepped back and didn't impose any stupid crossovers for two years, they might be pleasantly surprised. Shit, even back in the days of Infinity Crisis of the Atlantis Attacking Millennium X-Tinction Crusade Yadda Yadda, they were either self-contained minis with a few tie-ins, or totally told in the books and/or annuals. This "seven miniseries to tell the full story of the crossover" thing is insane. Either someone's tale of the crossover is told in the miniseries itself, or the regular title ties into it, or that story isn't important enough to tell. Period.

[jjreason]

Back in the day, shit like "Secret Invasion" and "WWHULK" just happened in the normal books. That's why they rocked. These days there is very little reason to buy the monthlies other than collecting - the key events for the year happen over the 8 months from Spring till fall in a gaudy limited.

[jjreason]

Mighty Avengers. The last couple of issues have been REALLY cool, meeting up with Nick Fury again for what's supposed to be the first time since Secret War.

Interesting to say the very, very least.... and Alex Maleev's art is really, really amazing. A VERY pleasant following act to Bags.

DOUBLE POST NOT ALLOWED!!

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Okay, so Avengers/Invaders #1 dropped this past week with a pretty nice Alex Ross cover. This book is going to run 12 issues. Quick question:

Why the fuck would they start it now, when the Avengers are all embroiled in the Secret Invasion? I don't give a fuck about any other Avengers story right now. At all. This book should have waited until the invasion was dealt with, or come out earlier. And who the fuck is Alex Ross thinking that anyone wants a 12 issue limited series, anyhow?

Secret Invasion #2 kind of crept along - maybe I need to re-read 1 & 2 together or something, but the pace seemed slower. I guess I expected another big book of revelations, with all sorts of other heroes being outted as Skrulls... instead my big surprise is Mockingbird theoretically coming back to life? Jesus. And if it turns out the dead Cap was a Skrull..... well, I won't like that.

TRIPLE POST DEFINITELY NOT ALLOWED!!

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Yeah, the Skrull heroes are stinky because I'm never a fan of ripping on existing heroes to make villains. That's been done to fucking DEATH - between the Avengers pounding on some "Justice League" mock-ups (Squadron Supreme) to the Authority ALSO pounding on some Justice-League mock-ups to.... well you see where I'm going.

All this needed to be was a cool sneaking story with skrulls jumping out from existing heroes when you least expected it, and the Illuminati needing Nick Fury to save their asses at the end.... it didn't need to turn into a big match of the heroes against themselves right out in the open (yet again) with the fate of the world hanging in the balance. I really hope that's not what this is all going to boil down to. The character designs were pretty cool though, I'll give Lenil that much.

[jjreason]

I like to eat feces with ketchup on it.

[jjreason]

Man, if I were any more gay, they'd have to use peanut butter to get all the dicks out of my asshole.

[vynsane]

Yeah, the Skrull heroes are stinky because I'm never a fan of ripping on existing heroes to make villains. That's been done to fucking DEATH - between the Avengers pounding on some "Justice League" mock-ups (Squadron Supreme) to the Authority ALSO pounding on some Justice-League mock-ups to.... well you see where I'm going.

okay, i can see where you're coming from, and yes, it's been done to death...

All this needed to be was a cool sneaking story with skrulls jumping out from existing heroes when you least expected it, and the Illuminati needing Nick Fury to save their asses at the end.... it didn't need to turn into a big match of the heroes against themselves right out in the open (yet again) with the fate of the world hanging in the balance. I really hope that's not what this is all going to boil down to. The character designs were pretty cool though, I'll give Lenil that much.

granted, but i think part of the point is that the sneaky stuff has been happening in the background for years, and this is the first full-frontal assault. we're still finding out who was/n't a skrull, and while the heavy hitter heroes are busy trying to kill the right people, we have a huge assault right in the heart of manhattan with no opposition.

and tell me the wolverine/cyclops/colossus/iron man skrull isn't the balls...